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Necessary Necessary. Necessary cookies are absolutely essential for the website to function properly. For my riding style I don't think I'd be happy with over mm reach, and it was pretty easy to figure out an ideal stack height by just playing with spacers when I first got the bike.
No formula involved. If you go by trial and error you may be close or you may be way off. People frequently are riding bikes that are ill fitted because the Size charts are all over the place from company to company. While it may not be perfect it provides some clarity. RobertGrainier Jun 3, at No this is not exactly the same. So far from preserving the spread, I'm closer to preserving the same angle between feet and hands, or in other words the same ratio of effective stack and reach.
But while reach numbers have got longer in recent years and that's a good thing , stack hasn't changed as much.
For example on my bike I can get the same RAD measurements with a 60mm stem slammed as a 50mm with mm of spacers underneath. RobertGrainier : Lee incorporates bar height.
It is harder to really effect the bar height while staying with the same RAD because effective stack is partially set from fork axle to crown and head tube length. Think XC vs DH bike. I just wish Lee would stop posting the height based formulas. People put in their heights, get crazy and inaccurate numbers, and dismiss Lee's fit system. Lee of all people should know that proper bike fit can't be determined with a simple formula based on height and "average" human proportions.
Hamburgi May 28, at I changed my handlebar wide from mm to mm on my enduro and its so much better to ride. And it has a backsweep of 12degress totally love it. Man, sweep is Soo important I'm on 11deg and have the least amount of pain riding from an old injury in years! More manufacturers need to offer more sweep options. I put an SQlab 12degree sweep bar on my Reign and it's amazing. Stock are usually degrees. I've been trying Salsa 11 degree and SQLab 12 and 16 degree bars.
I'm 5'6" with a -1 ape index so I had to cut them down from the factory mm and mm's been quite nice. I'm moving to a steeper and rockier area in a few weeks so I'll see if I still agree by the end of the summer. I've run some Salsa handlebars for quite a while with 11 degrees of backsweep and liked them a lot, especially for longer rides.
Then I got a set of OneUps, which have a pretty normal shape to them, and they are way more comfortable. Funny thing is, the stock bars are almost the exact same shape as the Oneups and I couldn't stand them. Shape is important but ride compliance is important-er.
Hamburgi : 16 seems to be more comfortable on my joints for longer days in the saddle, but also seems a little less precise for high speed descending.
Though that's all based on personal perception, not bike fit or any measurable indicators. SQlab 12deg is soo good for my hands. I always felt a pinch in the wrists by my thumbs. Now that's all gone. I'm thinking that I need a longer stem now though, as the back sweep has pulled my hands rearwards near the steering axis and handling is a bit twitchy. With a normal bar I use a 35mm stem, but with the 12 degree, I've found that a 50mm is needed to put my hands in roughly the same position.
Works great. Makes sense. Narrower handlebars effectively does the same thing as raising the stem height. So does more backsweep.
I wonder how much that plays into all the photo's in this story? Hamburgi : More sweep is more good but only when seated. If you are after a high rise bar Ergotec do a 12 degree back sweep 50mm and 70mm rise bar. I have the 70mm on my HT and 50mm on my FS.
I have one in the basement with loads of other boxes an a new frame to start my new build up. How long are your stems to handle the backsweep without going behind the steering axis with you hands? I did not remember the Paul Aston article I just remembered the article from Richard Cunningham about this topic.
What I noticed just now is that I had a wrong reference point in mind. I did the unscientific measurement because no frame at that time with the end of the bar instead of the middle of the grip. So I ordered an additional 80mm stem because I thought the 50mm stem I had was too short.
I guess I will be fine with the 50mm and perhaps can even go shorter. Time will tell I'm still running mine after a year, just feels right.
Hamburgi May 29, at I will stay with Perfect for jumps etc. Hell yeah!! Or just 35? Hamburgi : I have one from Newmen. All in Got them on both bikes now. Just wish more companies would do Hamburgi : Chromag. Excellent article Seb. Thank you for specifically mentioning rider proportion instead of just height. As a short 5'5 rider on long travel bikes with relatively long arms and legs and very short torso, it took me years to figure this out experientially.
I have a plus 4 ape index and I always struggled for front end grip. I received a ton of bad advice along the way that only complicated this matter further.
As a shorter rider you tend to be lead into the trap of overly low bar height when in fact your torso to limb length ratio should play an equal role in that decision. Way more front end grip. I used to have to run my fork crazy stiff to maintain any grip at all with the lower bar height.
Now I can get some comfort back with the higher bars and allow the wheel to track the ground better with more negative travel. You raise a good point that I didn't mention in the article - if you feel the need to run the fork crazy stiff, it's often a symptom of too low bar height. Get the bar height right and you can set up the suspension with less compromise.
I have been plagued by the too low bar issue on my XL Enduro. I put on a 38mm rise bar the tallest I could find locally and a longer air spring to push the fork travel to mm.
The bike came with a cut down steerer tube making height adjustment very limited. The bars are still too low. With my dropper down, my seat is only just below the bars. I measured my head tube and its mm long. My son's 24" wheeled Giant has a head tube of mm. Makes no sense whatsoever. Pro taper 3" risers here I come Genewich Jun 3, at I'm with you on proportion weirdness, though in a different way. My inseam is from somebody 5'6" and everything else is from someone 5'10", the recent crop of low seat tube, short headtube bikes have been a dream for me.
I still end up with my stem all the way down an little saddle to bar drop, but my but to grip distance is finally comfortable. I remember my very first MTB was a size small because everyone used inseam to do size back then, and I never could get it to fit right in any dimension.
I've just learnt this important lesson myself. I built a Transition Sentinel V2 recently, running 15mm of spacer under a Oneup 35mm rise bar and I was having trouble with the front wheel washing out particularly on flat corners and was destroying my confidence with the bike. Going back to my DH Session 9. So I started doing some research and came to several articles about stack height. I first removed a. I removed the last spacer and it felt like I was too heavy on the front of the bike immediately, I could feel the weight on my wrists so put one spacer back in and it's perfect.
I highly recommend all riders experiment with their stack height if they haven't before, you might just unlock the best bike you've ever ridden - it did for me! Stinky-Dee May 30, at I have had the same experience on my motorcycle. Fast turns, the wind pushes your body back, and the bike starts to understeer drift out with the front wheel. Once I would push my chest down the bike would hook up and tightens the turn. MuddyBrit May 28, at It's so hard to work out what different bars would feel like unless you buy them.
MuddyBrit : I think your bar roll preference can tell you a little about your sweep preference. If you like them rolled forward the inverse is true. However, the more rise the bars have the more your roll changes the reach Reach doesn't changed based on bar roll, but it will change if you move the stem up and down. Effective reach, what Seb is using in his article, would change. Murchman May 28, at As a tall rider 6'2 bars will never be level with my saddle at pedaling height, thank god for droppers.
Andrewthemaker May 28, at I'm 6'3" and until recently I felt the same way. But I now have the Whisky Milhouse bar on my Sentinel. I slammed my 5deg stem as low as I could and the position is almost level with my saddle. It has really helped in the slow tech. Andrewthemaker : Or you can simply use longer stem with original bars, as that is what you have effectively done when slamming the stem and using a big rise bars.
Oops, replied to wringwrong thread, sorry, should have been to one below. HCnoodle May 30, at That may be a game changer. WoodenCrow May 30, at HCnoodle : Been wondering who makes a high-rise stem approved for aggressive riding?
WoodenCrow : for example bbbcycling. But taller people generally have longer arms. So, I wonder if the torso angle is similar for most riders. Auto-XFil May 31, at WoodenCrow : Not sure, but there are lots of high-rise bars, which have the same effect and look way cooler, IMO. I've used 60mm rise dirt jump bars to help some lanky people fit bikes with short head tubes and chopped steerers.
SnaggleNut Jun 1, at Or get some of those direct mount spacers like minaar uses for a dual crown. I ride them on my DH. Handlebar height in relation with the bottom bracket really should be a geometry metric.
I always calculate the stack height minus the bottom bracket height to know how the bike will feel on the uphills and downhills. Exactly and I believe this is one of, if not the most important measurement for bike fit nirvana!
The flex pattern designed into the bars can be more methodically placed, they weigh less, but they cost more to manufacture, and they are usually less durable when it comes to nicks and scrapes than aluminum. On the contrary, aluminum handlebars are extremely durable, and if they do fail, it's not typically a catastrophic failure. They won't hurt your back pocket quite as much as carbon, but can sometimes be overbuilt and too stiff with a 35mm clamp diameter.
Carbon bars are lighter as well, so if you are concerned about weight then carbon bars would be the way to go. Each of the different materials have their strengths and weaknesses and their pros and cons. For more information on comparing different materials used for mountain bike handlebars, check out our recent article Carbon vs Aluminum - Which Bars Should You Ride? The handlebar rise and sweep are what define the shape of your handlebars.
There is a sea of different handlebar options with way too many different rise and sweep configurations to count. For starters, the rise of the handlebars is the vertical rise measured from the center of the bar to the bar end.
Some different mountain bike handlebars will range from a 0mm rise to around a 40mm rise and even taller. The more the handlebar rise, the taller the handlebar will feel. If you are someone constantly riding extremely steep terrain, you might benefit from a handlebar with a higher rise. What higher rise does is it allows you to get more of your weight over the back of the bike, something that is crucial when the trail gets steep. On the other side of the spectrum, if you are riding a purebred XC bike, having a lower rise bar will help keep weight over the front of the bike on those steep climbs.
On the other hand, sweep is effectively the bend of the handlebar and is broken down between up sweep and back sweep. Check out the two illustrations below of a front view and a top view to help understand the difference between up sweep and back sweep. Up sweep, which can be seen from the front view, is the angle measured from an imaginary line drawn parallel to the clamping surface and perpendicular to the direction of rise up to the handlebar. Back sweep, which can be seen from the top down view, is the angle measured from an imaginary line drawn from the clamping surface back to the handlebar.
The different handlebar sweeps available is very much a comfort thing. With more back sweep, naturally your upper body is in a bit different position than with a flatter bar. Finding what is comfortable for you is what's most important here, and you might get used to a specific up and back sweep, and changing that might feel weird. So when upgrading your handlebar it might help to check what you currently have on your bike.
Handlebar width is another personal measurement, and is a little different for everyone. It normally comes down to a combination of body dimensions, riding style and local terrain. A rider that is 5 foot 5 inches will probably not want to run the same bar width as someone who is 6 foot 3 inches.
Typically a shorter rider or a stalky rider will ride a slightly narrower handlebar than someone who might be tall or lanky. Then there is also riding style. An XC rider often runs a more narrow handlebar than a DH or freerider. I will be moving up to Elite next year. I almost always preride my race courses. I work on hard sections to figure out the best lines. Since the clinic, I have noticed that my balance has improved tremendously. So, Gene… thank you for the clinic. I still tell all my riding buddies about it.
Especially how you break down the mechanics of everything that you teach. I let them know how you explain the physics behind the techniques. I tell them that the learning environment you provide is the perfect way to learn something, practice it, and really get it. You can read skills articles and watch the youtube videos all day, but these will never engrain the skills needed to become a good mountain biker.
You repeat these drills under his watchful eye until the become engrained. I still make every ride a learning experience because of what he taught, and my riding has improved immensely as a result.
Thanks Gene! Just wanted to show you what your lessons made me do this past weekend! Thanks again for holding the camp last weekend. I was finally able to get out and ride yesterday on the falcon trail loop that goes around the Air Force Academy. There are two sections that I have had problems with in the past. One is a tight turn with two drop offs that are oddly spaced and the landing slopes off into some bushes.
When I rode it yesterday, I cleared it with confidence. The next section is a steep switchback climb with a ton of sand. This time I approached the switchback using the techniques and strategy you taught us. The result — made it! No problem! The last thing I noticed is that the whole ride was smoother.
I focused primarily on the vision techniques — and body position skills. The ride felt slower than what I normally ride, but it was actually six minutes faster! Absolutely amazing! Brad Oct. My son took your camp in winter park at age He is 16 and just completed the Laramie Epic 30 miles last weekend.
He placed 2 in the age bracket He continues to use your techniques and tips. Smooth is fast! Your worksheets are worn out and weathered from continued use!
Worth it…. Your camp gave me the confidence to go out and try a few races this summer. While I certainly did not break any records — I at least had a respectable finish and more importantly had a total blast.
Again no records but still having a total blast. My friends the same age as me think I am crazy doing this stuff but I think they are crazy to be sitting on their arses. Again, thank you for giving me the confidence to go out there and try some racing and hopefully in the near future I will be in another one of your camps!
Will Edgington September, Thanks for the e-mail. By the way, after completing your camp in Arizona, I dropped 5 minutes off my previous best lap time at the 12 hours of Temecula mountain bike race 59 to 54 minutes. Obviously, this was a significant breakthrough. Most importantly, the basic skills I was exposed to in your camp and continue to develop have made mountain biking more enjoyable. I participated in my first mountain bike race in Copper Harbor, MI. I placed 6th in my age group over 6 min.
Considering the field, I was happy with the results. My goal after the BetterRide camp was to be in the top 3 in the same race with a similar field. With my new found skills I placed 1st this time with 2nd place over 7 min. I tore it up! BTW, a while back you suggested some reading material. Good recommendation! Keep up the good job.
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